gundam modelleringsdatabas | samlingshanterare

#9ba2aa

 

Liknande färger

Emalj

 
2086 Lichtblau RLM 76
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Satin
Emalj
 
1790 Chrome Silver FS17178
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Emalj
 
146 Aircraft Grey
Humbrol
14ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Emalj
 
040 Pale Grey
Humbrol AA0432
14ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Emalj
 
166 Light Aircraft Grey
Humbrol AA1804
14ml (Tinlet)
Satin
Emalj
 
165 Medium Sea Grey
Humbrol AA1794
14ml (Tinlet)
Satin
Emalj
 
373 FS36375
Revell Color
14ml (Tinlet)
Satin
Emalj
 
M01 Royal Navy Light Grey
Colourcoats (discontinued 2014)
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
ACJ07 Mitsubishi Navy Grey
Colourcoats (discontinued 2014)
14ml
Satin
Emalj
 
ACRN08 Barley Grey (BS18-B-21)
Colourcoats (discontinued 2014)
14ml
Satin
Emalj
 
ALCE636 Mil-Spec Light Ghost Grey FS36375
Alclad II
30ml (Flaska)
Matt
Emalj
 
ALCE319 Mil-Spec USN WWII Intermediate Blue (FS595-35164)
Alclad II
30ml (Flaska)
Matt
Emalj
 
1246 Silver
Testors
3 oz (Sprejburk)
Glans
Emalj
 
1146 Metallic Silver
Testors
7.4ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Emalj
 
X136 Light Compass Grey FS16375
XtraColor
14ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Emalj
 
X135 Dark Compass Grey FS16320
XtraColor
14ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Emalj
 
X003 RAF Medium Sea Grey BS637
XtraColor
14ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Emalj
 
NARN52 RN Light Weatherwork Grey - BS381C-676
Colourcoats (since 2014) ex-M01
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
RN03 AP 507C Light Grey (Discontinued)
Colourcoats (since 2014)
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
ACJ07 Mitsubishi Navy Grey
Colourcoats (since 2014)
14ml
Satin
Emalj
 
ACRN08 Barley Grey BS18-B-21
Colourcoats (since 2014)
14ml
Satin
Emalj
 
ACLW27 Silbergrau RAL 7001
Colourcoats (since 2014)
14ml
Satin
Emalj
 
HX05 Light Aircraft Grey
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
HT03 (Russian Aircraft) Surface Grey
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
USN5 Light Gull Grey FS36440
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
HX04 Sea Grey Medium
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
HB06 Sea Grey Medium
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
HU06 Light Grey
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
HX07 Barley Grey
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
MC04 British Grey
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
HT04 (Russian Aircraft) Subframe Grey
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
HU25 Dark Gull Grey FS36231
Humbrol Authentic Colours
14ml
Matt
Emalj
 
E253s RAL 7040 Fenstergrau (Window Grey)
Arcus
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Emalj
 
E251s RAL 7001 Silbergrau (Silver Grey)
Arcus
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Emalj
 
Sliver Metallic Base Coat
Scalefinishes.com
2 oz (Flaska)
Matt
Emalj

Akryl

 
XA1136 Light Compass Grey FS16375
XtraCrylix
16ml (Flaska)
Glans
Akryl
 
XA1135 Dark Compass Grey FS16320
XtraCrylix
16ml (Flaska)
Glans
Akryl
 
XA1003 RAF Medium Sea Grey BS637
XtraCrylix
16ml (Flaska)
Glans
Akryl
 
H308 Gray (FS36375)
Mr. Aqueous Hobby Color
10ml
Satin
Akryl
 
UA 036 Grey Reflectance High Low - FS 36373
Lifecolor UA036
22ml
Matt
Akryl
 
UA 117 Grey - FS 36329
Lifecolor UA117
22ml
Matt
Akryl
 
UA252 Panzergrau Flashed shade
Lifecolor
22ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
LC 18 Matt Light Grey FS36300
Lifecolor
22ml
Matt
Akryl
 
FS17178 Gloss Silver
Lifecolor LC74
22ml
Glans
Akryl
 
LC 24 Matt Natural Metal
Lifecolor FS 37178
22ml
Metallisk
Akryl
 
4402 Armored Steel
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
4255 Aircraft Carrier Type 2
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
4865 5-H Haze Gray
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
4783 Grun RLM 73
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
4786 Lichtblau RLM 76
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
4784 Graugrun RLM 74
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
4678 Silver
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
165 Medium Sea Grey
Humbrol AB0165
14ml (Tinlet)
Matt
Akryl
 
165 Medium Sea Grey
Humbrol DB0165
14ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
040 Pale Grey
Humbrol AB0040
12ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Akryl
 
040 Pale Grey
Humbrol AB0040
12ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Akryl
 
040 Pale Grey
Humbrol AB0040
14ml (Tinlet)
Glans
Akryl
 
166 Light Aircraft Grey
Humbrol AB0166
12ml
Satin
Akryl
 
166 Light Aircraft Grey
Humbrol DB0166
14ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
166 Light Aircraft Grey
Humbrol
5ml (Tinlet)
Satin
Akryl
 
165 Medium Sea Grey
Humbrol AB0165
12ml
Satin
Akryl
 
165 Mid Sea Grey
Humbrol AD6165
150ml (Sprejburk)
Satin
Akryl
 
165 Medium Sea Grey
Humbrol AB0165
5ml (Tinlet)
Satin
Akryl
 
RLM 75 RLM 75
Revell Color
18ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
374 Grey/Grau - RAL 7001
Revell Aqua Color 36374
18ml
Satin
Akryl
 
374 Grey / Grau - RAL 7001
Revell Aqua Color 36374
5ml
Satin
Akryl
 
91 Steel
Revell Aqua Color 36191
18ml
Metallisk
Akryl
 
91 Steel/Eisen
Revell Aqua Color 36191
5ml
Metallisk
Akryl
 
A84 RLM 63 Lichtgrau
Pactra
10ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
B06M Medium Sea Grey
AGAMA LH138B06
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
B03M Ocean Grey
AGAMA LH138B03
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
C38P Light Grey RAL 7040
AGAMA
10ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
72032 FS 36375 Light Compass Ghost Gray
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
77203 Grey (factory) for Su-27 digital camouflage
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
73036 Light Gray for Su-27/27UB/27PU
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
77105 FS 36375 - Light Compass Ghost Gray
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
73162 Light Gray (Factory) Su-27SM
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
76204 Bright aluminum with a high level of reflection
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Glans
Akryl
 
76000 Aluminium Μatt
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
76001 Αluminium Semi Μatt
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
32-MAKR PRIMER Basic gray (ГРУНТОВКА Базовый серый)
Zvezda
12ml (Flaska)
Akryl
 
63-MAKR Chrome Silver (Хромированное серебро)
Zvezda
12ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
07-MAKR Steel (Сталь)
Zvezda
12ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
921577 Flat Light Ghost Gray
Testors 921577004
0.25 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
921577 Ghost Gray
Testors 921577031
0.25 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
921578 Flat Dark Ghost Gray
Testors 921578031
0.25 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
921578 Flat Dark Ghost Gray
Testors 921578004
0.25 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
22-59 Ironbreaker
Citadel
12ml
Satin
Akryl
 
AK 5003 Ocean Gray 5 O
AK Interactive
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
4677AP Flat Aluminum
Italeri Acrylic Paint FS 37178
20ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
4679AP Flat Steel
Italeri Acrylic Paint FS 37178
20ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
4762AP Flat Light Ghost Gray
Italeri Acrylic Paint FS 36300
20ml
Matt
Akryl
 
4678AP Gloss Silver FS17178
Italeri Acrylic Paint
20ml (Ögon droppar)
Glans
Akryl
 
A.MIG-0602 Drybrush - Medium Grey
Ammo by Mig Jimenez
40ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
A.MIG-911 Grey Shine
Ammo by Mig Jimenez
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
A.MIG-212 Silver Grey (FS 26373)
Ammo by Mig Jimenez A.MIG-0212
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
AW4118P Warpaints Air Cadre Grey
Warpaints
18ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
P050 Gris Clair - US Moderne Light Ghost Gray RAL 7023
Prince August Air 71050
17ml
Matt
Akryl
 
PP117 Base Acrylique Polyuréthane US Navy Gris Clair FS36375
Prince August Air
60ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
P064 Chrome Métallique
Prince August Air 71064
17ml
Metallisk
Akryl
 
MRP-A032 Cockpit Light Grey (MiG-29) Russian AF
MR.Paint
17ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
MRP-A065 Light Ghost Gray (Medium Grey) (FS36375)
MR.Paint
17ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryl
 
505376 US Ghost Gray Light
Polly Scale Model & Hobby
15ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
71.050 Light Gray - FS36375 - RAL 7040
Vallejo Model Air
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
71.050 Light Gray - FS36375 - RAL 7040
Vallejo Model Air 050
8ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
71.046 Pale Grey Blue
Vallejo Model Air
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
71.063 Silver
Vallejo Model Air
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
71.062 Aluminium (FS37178)
Vallejo Model Air
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
71.064 Chrome - FS17178
Vallejo Model Air
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
MMP-094 Sea Grey Medium RAF BS 637
Mission Models
30ml
Matt
Akryl
 
TESM02 Light Metal
True-Earth SDW Paints
19ml
Matt
Akryl
 
TESC06 Neutral Grey
True-Earth SDW Paints
19ml
Matt
Akryl
 
72.752 Silver
Vallejo Game Air
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
72.749 Stone Wall Grey
Vallejo Game Air
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
77.717 Dull Aluminium
Vallejo Metal Color
32ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
77.703 Dark Aluminium
Vallejo Metal Color
32ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
77.716 Semi Gloss Aluminium
Vallejo Metal Color
32ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
77.706 White Aluminium
Vallejo Metal Color
32ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
70.615 USN Light Ghost Gray - FS36375
Vallejo Surface Primer
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
73.615 USN Light Ghost Grey - FS36375
Vallejo Surface Primer
60ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
74.615 USN Light Ghost Grey - FS36375
Vallejo Surface Primer
200ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
70.615 USN Light Ghost Grey - new formula
Vallejo Surface Primer
18ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
73.615 USN Light Ghost Grey - new formula
Vallejo Surface Primer
60ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
74.615 USN Light Ghost Grey - new formula
Vallejo Surface Primer
200ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
70.628 Plate Mail Metal
Vallejo Surface Primer
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
70.630 Steel Grey - new formula
Vallejo Surface Primer
18ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
6113 BS637 Medium Sea Gray
Color of Eagles
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
70.989 Sky Grey - FS36463
Vallejo Model Color 70.989, 989, Pos. 154
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
70.906 Pale Blue
Vallejo Model Color 70.906, 906, Pos. 169*
18ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
69.036 Light Grey
Vallejo Mecha Colors
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
69.036 Light Grey
Vallejo Mecha Colors
18ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
69.037 Grey
Vallejo Mecha Colors
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
69.037 Grey
Vallejo Mecha Colors
18ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
AK 2057 FS 36375 Light Ghost Grey
AK Interactive Air Series
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
AK 2056 FS 35237 Medium Grey
AK Interactive Air Series
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Satin
Akryl
 
40 Gris pale brilliant (Gloss Pale Grey)
Heller Acrylic 9040
12ml (Flaska)
Glans
Akryl
 
053 Gris metallique (Grey)
Heller Acrylic 9053
12ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl
 
28.021 Silver
Vallejo Hobby Paint
400ml (Sprejburk)
Matt
Akryl
 
SC004 5-H Haze Gray
Scale Colors
1 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
SCA003 US Navy Intermediate Blue ANA 608
Scale Colors
1 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
SC301 RAL 7001 Kriegsmarine Light Gray
Scale Colors
1 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
F-51 Medium Grey
Pacific88
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
1033 Sky Grey
ICM
12ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
BCA012 Pale Grey
Billing colors
22ml (Flaska)
Glans
Akryl
 
AK 11365 French Army Grey -Blue
AK 3rd Generation - AFV
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
AK11830 RLM 78 (1941)
AK 3rd Generation - Air
17ml
Matt
Akryl
 
A167 Light Grey (RLM 63)
Hataka Hobby Red Line HTK-A167
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
A037 Light Ghost Grey (FS36375)
Hataka Hobby Red Line HTK-A037
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
A142 Camouflage (Barley) Grey (BS381C:626)
Hataka Hobby Red Line HTK-A142
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
A302 Gripen Grey (FS36373)
Hataka Hobby Red Line HTK-A302
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
A189 Silver grey (RAL 7001)
Hataka Hobby Red Line HTK-A189
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
A035 Dark Ghost Grey (FS36320)
Hataka Hobby Red Line HTK-A035
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
A082 Gris Bleu Foncé
Hataka Hobby Red Line HTK-A082
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
B167 Light Grey (RLM 63)
Hataka Hobby Blue Line HTK-B167
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
B037 Light Ghost Grey (FS36375)
Hataka Hobby Blue Line HTK-B037
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
B142 Camouflage (Barley) Grey (BS381C:626)
Hataka Hobby Blue Line HTK-B142
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
B302 Gripen Grey (FS36373)
Hataka Hobby Blue Line HTK-B302
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
B189 Silver grey (RAL 7001)
Hataka Hobby Blue Line HTK-B189
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
B035 Dark Ghost Grey (FS36320)
Hataka Hobby Blue Line HTK-B035
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
B082 Gris Bleu Foncé
Hataka Hobby Blue Line HTK-B082
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryl
 
ATOM-20129 Light Ghost Grey
ATOM
20ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryl
 
ATOM-20164 Silver
ATOM
20ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryl

Lack

 
1424 Burnt Iron Non-Buffing Metalizer
Model Master
15ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Lack
 
1423 Gun Metal Non-Buffing
Model Master
14.7ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Lack
 
211 MR.METAL COLOR Chrome Silver
Mr.COLOR
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Lack
 
603 IJN Hull Color/Maizuru
Mr.COLOR C603
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Lack
 
SC03 Hull color/Maizuru
Mr.COLOR
10ml (Flaska)
Satin
Lack
 
SC16 Light Gray (5-L)
Mr.COLOR
10ml (Flaska)
Satin
Lack
 
ZP-1033 White aluminium
Zero Paints RAL 9006
60ml (Flaska)
Matt
Lack
 
ZP-1033 Window grey
Zero Paints RAL 7040
60ml (Flaska)
Matt
Lack
 
ZP-1033 Signal grey
Zero Paints RAL 7004
60ml (Flaska)
Matt
Lack
 
FP101 Gray Filler Primer
Dupli-Color
11 fl oz (Sprejburk)
Matt
Lack
 
DAP1699 Primer Sealer
Dupli-Color
12 oz (Sprejburk)
Matt
Lack

Akryllack

 
67105 FS35675 Light Compass Ghost Gray
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
63036 Light Gray (Faded)
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
62032 FS36375 Light Ghost Gray
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
66001 Aluminium Semi-Matt
Akan
10ml (Flaska)
Metallisk
Akryllack
 
C167 Light Grey (RLM 63)
Hataka Hobby Orange Line HTK-C167
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryllack
 
C203 Sky Grey (FS35463)
Hataka Hobby Orange Line HTK-C203
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryllack
 
C302 Gripen Grey (FS36373)
Hataka Hobby Orange Line HTK-C302
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryllack
 
C037 Light Ghost Grey (FS36375)
Hataka Hobby Orange Line HTK-C037
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryllack
 
C142 Camouflage (Barley) Grey (BS381C:626)
Hataka Hobby Orange Line HTK-C142
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryllack
 
C189 Silver grey (RAL 7001)
Hataka Hobby Orange Line HTK-C189
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryllack
 
C082 Gris Bleu Foncé
Hataka Hobby Orange Line HTK-C082
17ml (Ögon droppar)
Matt
Akryllack
 
TCP-1003 5-H Haze Gray
Tru-Color
1 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
TCP-1042 FS-36270: Modern Haze Gray
Tru-Color
1 fl oz (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
MRP-046 Light Grey Ukraine AF Su-27
MR.Paint
30ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryllack
 
MRP-354 Russian Air Superiority Grey - AS1115 (Mig-21MF,bis,Mig-23
MR.Paint
30ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryllack
 
MRP-223 Dove Grey 5431-14M - Modern Swedish AF
MR.Paint
30ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryllack
 
MRP-372 Light Grey (FS36373) - Gripen Grey
MR.Paint
30ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryllack
 
MRP-038 Light Ghost Grey (Medium Grey) FS36375
MR.Paint
30ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryllack
 
GC-108 60’s & 70’s Gulf Blue
Gravity Colors
30ml (Flaska)
Satin
Akryllack
 
PL120 Premium US MEDIUM GREY (FS36375)
SMS
30ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
PL188 Premium GRAUVIOLETT (RLM75)
SMS
30ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
RC210 Silbergrau Silver Gray RAL 7001
AK Real Colors
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
RC252 Light Ghost Grey FS 36375
AK Real Colors
10ml (Flaska)
Matt
Akryllack
 
OP 085MIL German Military Colour - Silver Grey RAL 7001
Outlaw Paints OP085MIL
30ml (Flaska)
Akryllack

Liknande färgchips

 
FS16314
 
FS16473
 
FS17178
 
FS25237
 
FS26251
 
FS26270
 
FS26280
 
FS26293
 
FS26314
 
FS26329
 
FS26373
 
FS35237
 
FS36270
 
FS36280
 
FS36293
 
FS36300
 
FS36314
 
FS36320
Dark Ghost Grey
 
FS36373
 
FS36375
Light Ghost Grey
 
FS37200
 
FS26300
 
FS26320
Dark Ghost Grey
 
FS26375
Light Ghost Grey
 
FS27200
 
FS15237
 
FS16270
 
FS16280
 
FS16293
 
FS16300
 
FS16320
Dark Ghost Grey
 
FS16373
 
FS16375
Light Ghost Grey
 
FS17200
 
FS16329
 
FS36329
 
FS37178
 
FS27178
 
RLM01
 
RLM03
 
RLM63
 
RLM75
 
RAL7001
Silbergrau
 
RAL7004
Signalgrau
 
RAL7045
Telegrau 1
 
RAL9006
Weißaluminium
 
BS381C:626
Camouflage Grey
 
BS381C:637
Medium Sea Grey

Färgvisning

RGB
#9ba2aa

100% täckt

Colors on every screen are different, colors over time change, this is a rough approach only! Feel free to add comments on how we can make our rough approach better!